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| RENO'S
CAFÉ
Well, the corn shucks is real expensive, and then you have to boil them and – and – a lot of them tear up. They real good with the corn shucks, now. They taste – to me the taste better, but – they’re hard to find. – Pearl Johnson Pearl Johnson has been making hot tamales by hand since the 1950s. Originally from Charleston, Mississippi, her first job was at the old Lucas Bar-B-Que in Greenwood. After Lucas Bar-B-Que closed its doors, Pearl worked at the Baldwin Piano factory until it, too, closed. Now her daughter, LaUnice Gray, owns Reno’s Cafe, and Pearl makes tamales for her there regularly. Pearl’s tamales are different from most Delta-style tamales. She cooks and serves them in a tomato-based sauce. When asked if there’s a secret to making her tamales, Pearl replies, “Well, no. Not really. It’s just the idea of knowing, you know, how much stuff to use in it.”
--- What follows is a portion of the original interview that has been edited for length. To download the entire transcript in PDF form, please click here. Subject: Pearl Johnson, tamale maker,
Reno’s Café-Greenwood, MS --- Amy Evans: All right. It is Monday, June 9th, two thousand and three, and this is Amy Evans in Greenwood, Mississippi, interviewing-- Pearl Johnson: Annie Pearl Johnson.
Sixty-seven. Okay, and are you a life-long resident of Greenwood? I’ve been here since I was sixteen [1952]. Okay, well, where are you from? Charleston [Mississippi]. So how did you learn to make tamales? I started working at Lucas barbecue stand when I was eighteen [in 1954]. Can you tell me a little bit about Lucas barbecue? I’ve been hearing a little bit about that. Well, he made barbecue, hot tamales, hamburgers. And at that time, you know, we had a car-hoping place. And so that’s how I started off working there. And I worked there, I worked there about--I worked till he closed. Well, he passed and then she closed the business up…[It was] on Avenue F. On the corner of Avenue F and Percy Street. Do you remember kind of what year they closed? Mmmm, could be like sixty-seven, I think. Sixty-six or sixty-seven, I ain’t for sure. Okay. And do I understand correctly that that was a white woman with a black man that ran that place? Were they married? No, they weren’t married. He was white and she was black…She did all the, you know, the cooking, barbecuing, and making hot tamales--and that’s how I learned how to do it. And when did you--you just kept making them on your own after you left? Well, it was--it was about--about ten years ago, after my daughter started running the restaurant then I started making them. Okay, and your daughter runs Reno’s
Café. Reno’s Café on McLaurin. And why did she decide to open a café? Well, I had been working for this guy, and then she started working for him, and after he passed, she just kept the place. And what’s your daughter’s name? LeUnice Gray. And so did you kind of--How did you remember the recipe from Lucas? Well, I--before she passed, I had started making them, you know…And when she passed, then I would do a lot of the cooking. Like making hot tamales and making the sauce for the barbecue and stuff. Do you have a secret for your tamales? Well [chuckles], no. Not really. It’s just [laughs] the idea of knowing, you know, how much stuff to use in it. Do you know where she got the recipe? I sure don’t…Cause when I came to Greenwood, they were there on that corner. I think they started off down there on McLaurin, and then they moved down there. [Pause] So I don’t know--I don’t know --when she got them by tasting somebody that was selling them, and she just start, you know, when she found out the ingredients that they used, just tried it and it worked. And so how many tamales do you think you make--in a day or a week or a-- About twenty-five or thirty dozen. --- Well, what d you like best about cooking for people? Or cooking, period. Well, I’ve always enjoyed cooking, you know. I’ve always--mostly, you know, when my children were coming up, I cooked for them and other children would be there and so now I just cook for the family most of the time. Like on weekends. Sometime all of them eat then. I just enjoy cooking. --- Well since you’ve lived in Greenwood, um, all this time [pause] what kind of changes have you seen happen around here? Well, it’s--it’s been a lot of changes
in Greenwood. Added on. There been a lot of And do you think the restaurant business is a pretty good business to be in? Well, it’s--it’s pretty good. It really varies to be in this, you know, the businesses going out has slowed it up. It’s a hard business to be in. It sure is! Now that--that’s a working business!...It--it--it’s really more work to me than that--to me than the factory work. Cause I worked at Baldwin and then I worked at the blue jean factory till they closed up…But I had to quit at Baldwin cause I had a bad leg and I got so I couldn’t wear closed-in shoes so I had to leave them [the company] out there…But they--they just went out of business…That’s when I left. Then. So that’s when I started working with my daughter. And are there any other employees over there [at Reno’s Café]? Or is it just you and your daughter? Me and my daughter. How old is she? She’s forty-one. --- Do you eat your own tamales? Sometimes. I love them, but I can’t eat them like I want to because of that pepper. --- Well, you think you’ll make tamales as long as-- As long as I’m able. And how much to they cost for a dozen? Five dollars. Do you make different kinds or just one? Hot and mild. Is the hot on the inside or is that the sauce that goes on it? Well, they--they hot. It’s hot! [Laughing] And are they all pork tamales? They made out of beef. Are you the only person that you know of here in Greenwood that makes them? I--It--It be some more--I think the--the other people maybe--Well, I know of a lady that used to make them, but I don’t know if she still make them. But I think the most of them buy them, you know, from the guy in Greenville. A lot of people say they did. Yeah, that’s the--I think you might be talking about Doe’s [Eat Place] in Greenville? I don’t know the Greenville place, but I do
know-- Between you and me, they have a machine that makes their tamale…But I guess that doesn’t really always affect the taste. Well, as long as you put the seasoning in [laughs]
right, sure it make them good. And I--I haven’t ate any of those. I--My husband used to drive a truck, and he brought me home some one time but they was, you know, real large, but they didn’t really--To me they didn’t taste so good…But, you know. It all depends on what you like…Course they didn’t have any sauce with them. That’s probably why they didn’t taste good. They were just, you know, just dry-like…It helps, uh, that taste of them. What is it--what’s in the sauce? Without giving too much away. It’s--you make it up out of tomato paste…Tomato paste and water and put you some salt in. Cook them in it…That’s--after you make them you have to cook them in that sauce. How long does it take you to make a dozen tamales? How many do you make at a time, maybe? Like I said, about twenty-five or thirty dozen. It take about--a good five hours. You make them every single day? Ohhh, Lo-ord. [Laughing]. No!...No way! That’s too much work. [More laughing] Well, how often do you make them then? Once or twice a week…Cause it’s too much making tamales to make them every day. [Short laugh] I’d sure enough be wore out. And you try and go over to Reno’s Café every day or-- Yeah, I go over there every day. Yeah. --- It’s Wednesday, June 11th, and I’m back talking to Mrs. Pearl Johnson doing a follow-up interview at her house…The Lucas family--What was their whole name? Who ran the restaurant? Andy Love Lucas. And Katie was Katie McLean. --- I thought maybe you could just kind of describe the steps in making a tamale. Well, you have to have the meal. You got to precook
the meat. And then season it. Then ground it up. And then you take
the broth off of the--meat and make your meal up with it. [Pause]
And that’s the way it--[pause]. You know, that’s--that’s-- And then you said you cook them in that sauce. Uh-huh. [Pause] And you just roll out and wrap it in a--they call it a parchment paper. And tie them up, and then you cook them in that sauce. You don’t ever wrap them in the cornhusks? [Shakes head “no.”] Why not? Well, the corn shucks is real expensive, and then you have to boil them and--and--a lot of them tear up. They real good with the corn shucks, now. They taste--to me the taste better, but--they’re hard to find. And you keep the tamales frozen as you go if you make extra? When I make them, I freeze them and just cook off of them. --- [D]o you think that your daughter over at Reno’s will keep making the tamales when you decide to stop making them? Well, I guess she will. She hadn’t said, but I’m sure she will. She knows how to make them? [Nods “yes.”] --- To download the entire transcript in PDF form, please click here.
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Reno’s Café
Listen
to this 
Who
makes some fabulous tamales. And, um, may I ask your age, Mrs. Johnson?
jobs
in Greenwood, you know, gone out here recently. We’ve lost
a lot of jobs. Major jobs that, you know, was helping this city.
But now it’s kind of going back down since a lot of the jobs
is gone. 
that’s
how you go about doin’ it. [Laughing] You have to use the
broth to make the meal up…So the meal goes around the tamales. 
