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| ERVIN'S HOT TAMALES
Well, for a while people really didn't like [our tamales in parchment paper] as well as they did in the shuck. But as time passed they got where it didn't really make no difference, it's a tamale. – Rosetta Ervin Rosetta Ervin’s late husband, Louis Ervin, grew up in Tunica County, Mississippi, and learned about hot tamales from a local Jewish man. In 1966, Mr. Ervin purchased a recipe from a man across the river in Arkansas. He paid over one thousand dollars for it, a price that certainly underscores his faith in making and selling tamales. After perfecting their new recipe, Mr. and Mrs. Ervin spent many an evening and weekend peddling their tamales in downtown Tunica. In the early days, they sold hot tamales for seventy-cents a dozen from a converted milk truck. When their daughter, Edna, was old enough, she helped too. Today, Rosetta and Edna work in a custom kitchen behind their home. They make tamales from the same recipe, only now they wrap their tamales in parchment paper, not shucks. Edna hand-delivers bundles to customers throughout the north Delta.
--- What follows is a portion of the original interview that has been edited for length. To download the entire transcript in PDF form, please click here. Subject: Rosetta & Edna Ervin,
Ervin’s Hot Tamales-Sledge, MS --- Amy Evans: This is Tuesday, June twenty-eighth, 2005 and I'm outside Sledge, Mississippi, and Tunica, Mississippi, in the Ervin home with Miss Rosetta Ervin and her daughter Edna. And we're here to talk about hot tamales. Would y’all both mind saying your names and also, if you don't mind, your birth dates for the record, so we can get the generations right. Edna Ervin: Okay. Momma, they need your name and your birth date. Rosetta Ervin: Okay. Tell it to her? Rosetta Ervin,
December the second, 1923. EE: Edna Ervin, April the fifteenth, 1959. And Miss Rosetta, were you born in the area--in the Delta? RE: I was born in Quitman County…And then I moved to Tunica County when I was six years old. And what was growing up in the North [Mississippi] Delta like when you were young? RE: Well it was fine. It was just--it was a farm, and you had to work hard. --- And when did you learn to make hot tamales? Well my husband [Louis Ervin] bought this recipe, I’m--I'm thinking [in] 1966. It was in the '[nineteen] sixties, I know--I don't know if it was [nineteen] sixty-six, you know, just directly. What year did y’all get married? Nineteen and fifty-three. And was he from this area also? Uh-huh, Dundee [Mississippi]. And he stayed in Tunica County. So he just got his hands on a [tamale] recipe? Well, he bought this recipe from a--a guy out of Arkansas. Okay. And did he see a future in the tamale business? Is that why he bought the recipe? Well, he thought--he thought somebody did. [Laughs] He had been with somebody that used to make them when he was a kid; that's where he got his idea from. So in those days--in the [nineteen] fifties and sixties--were there a lot of tamale vendors on the streets in towns up in this area? No, no. No, um-hmm. Not in Tunica. No? But you said he grew up knowing somebody who made hot tamales? He did, um-hmm. Was it just at their house that he was exposed to them? Well, I really don't know, but he said he used to be with--he was a Jew. This man was a Jew. And he used to be with him when he was a kid, and he made hot tamales. Okay. And so the man that--or the restaurant or the person that he bought the recipe from in Arkansas, do you have any recollection of how he had that contact or who it was? No, I don't. I really don't…I'm afraid to say. I--I--it might have been a restaurant but I don't--I really don't know…I know that's where he bought it from. [Laughs]. He went to Arkansas, and he ran up on this person and then he--you know, he bought the recipe from him. [W]hen he got his hands on the recipe did he start making them then? And selling them? Uh-huh, yeah. And do you remember making them with him that first time? Ooh, Lord, no. All I can remember--he was selling them, I believe, for seventy-cents a dozen at that time. I just really don't know how the making up was. Were you helping him make them then? Sometimes, you know, I'd be standing around watching. [Laughs] Had you eaten a hot tamale before? I had. I went to Texas one time, and I got some chicken hot tamales. What is it do you think about hot tamales in the Delta here? Well, I really think they're the best ones that I've had. Do you have any idea how they got so popular here? No, I don't. --- So what year did your husband pass, if I may ask? That—he--what--oh 1980—eighty-one or eighty? Probably was 1980. I just know it was January the first. And so for thirty years y’all made and sold tamales? Almost—well, right after he passed, I think we missed about year or maybe two years before we started back. Is that what y’all did to make a living or was it just something on the side? Just something on the--well he was disabled from work and that--that was just a little side job. Did you have a cart or a stand or a shop? We had a stand--a stand…Well, it was a bus. It was in Tunica…You know where Tunica Pharmacy…We was--we was over in town right in the front of Tunica Pharmacy. Okay. And was it a stand that y’all built or had built? Well it was a truck that my husband had fixed up. A bus, rather.
Uh-hmm. What did your truck look like, do you remember? What did it look like? It was just an old milk truck; it's sitting out there now [in the side yard]. And he fixed it up and had it wired up and everything, so we could have a stove and refrigerator and everything on it. Did you sell a lot of tamales that way? Well, not a lot of them, you know, but they were pretty good because it was something new in town. Hadn't been done in Tunica in a long time, so they said. So the recipe was a success that he bought? I think it was a success. Yeah? Have you enjoyed selling tamales all these decades? Oh, yes. Yes. I have. --- And Edna, were you a little girl on the--on the bus on the weekend? EE: Yes. [Laughs] What are you earliest memories of being in the tamale bus as a little girl? Well, I was just excited. And I got a chance to see people. And by me being in town, I was just excited. And it—well, it just changed my life about dealing with people…I got a chance to learn how to conduct myself as a businessperson. Uh-hmm. --- So when did you first start to learn the recipe? EE: Well after my father passed, which was 1980, then I got in--involved more helping my mother. So you grew up eating tamales, I would imagine? Well, you be around them so much, you know, you really [Laughs]--you get used to eating them. But it's not like something that you would want to have every day. Um-hmm. But you like tamales? Yes, I like tamales. How would you describe the tamales that y’all make? Well the proof--the proof is in the pudding. You have to try them for yourself to really know how good they are. I don't want--I really don't want to brag on them, but I've been told that they are good. Because I mean you know everybody does a tamale differently I'm finding out, you know. Right. Some people steam them or they simmer them or they have a sauce or no sauce or shucks or parchment or more meat or more masa--more dough. So I just wondered if you could describe one, without one being in front of me here, what they were like? Well they’re meaty. More meat than bread [meaning, masa or cornmeal]. What kind of meat do you use? Beef, uh-hmm. Okay. Are they wrapped in shucks or--parchment? No [not shucks]. Were they ever [wrapped in shucks]? Yes. When did that change happen? [To her mother, Rosetta] Daddy started using shucks back in the [nineteen] sixties, right?
And changed to using parchment paper? Is that what y’all use? EE: Yes, uh-hmm. And how is that--that different? Do you like it better or not as much? RE: Well, for a while people really didn't like them as well as they did in the shuck. But as time passed they got where it didn't really make no difference, it's a tamale. Is it easier or different working with the tamales when you're not using shucks? I think it's--I think it's a little more easier. How so? Easier to roll…With a shuck sometime you would kind of have to patch them together; with the regular paper you just roll them. --- Okay, and so when your husband passed, was there any time that you thought maybe that you'd stop making tamales or you--? RE: I thought of—did. In fact, we--we stopped for about a year and better, and then people kept asking and asking for them, and we decided to try it. So do people come out here to get the tamales, or do you still take them into town? Well see--well some will come, you know, and mostly we take them out peddling. Uh-hmm. So do you still use the same truck? Oh, no, uh-umm…The truck was going down. She [Edna] uses her personal truck. And so you'll go--will you go to a parking lot, or will you deliver door-to-door, or how does that work? EE: Door-to-door. So you have some regular customers that you cater to? EE: Yes, uh-hmm. Are there any customers you have that you've had for all these years that you remember? RE: I don't have any that we had when Louis started. So as--as a married couple doing this on the side, were y’all still farming or were you doing other jobs? RE: Well when he first started he was trying to farm a little bit and his health got bad and then he had another little outside job at this Tunica Pharmacy. He didn’t--you know, whenever he felt like it. He just really wasn't a permanent job. --- Well, so Miss Edna, are you going to carry on the tamale--tamale tradition as long as you can? EE: If God is willing. Yeah? Do you hold another job too? Yes, I work in the school system. Okay. And I know how labor-intensive tamales are, so you must spend every spare moment rolling and cooking. Yes, it's--it's a lot of work in it. What kind of schedule do y’all keep of tamale making? We really don't have one. [Laughs] There's not--just--is it just on demand or--you don't like cook the meat on Thursdays and roll on Fridays or anything like that? We just really don't have a regular schedule; we just do what we can do. [Laughs] --- And are they known as Ervin's Hot Tamales, the Ervin Family Hot Tamales? EE: Yes. RE: Ervin’s Hot Tamales. --- [Y]ou know, everybody when they talk about tamales in the Delta [they] talk about Mexican migrant workers coming up to work in the cotton fields in the [nineteen] thirties in the Delta and bringing [a] hot tamale tradition with them. And then it's stayed in the African American community in the Delta. And so we're just trying to put those pieces together and see kind of how far back we can reach and where that history goes. Does any of that sound like something you've heard before or--? EE: No, not really. About the Mexicans bringing the recipes here. RE: No, I didn't know about any of it. EE: I have heard it but not really that--I didn't know it…Um-hmm. I never even talked to someone that, you know--a guy came through from Illinois, and he stopped, and he asked was I a Mexican. I told him no. He thought you might have some in you because you were making tamales? EE: Right, right. Hmm. Well, you know, and there are a lot of other people who said that the tamale was just always here. So, you know, with the ingredients of corn and--and beef, it seems logical that it didn't have far to travel to be in the Delta. But it's amazing that it's stayed, you know. And that so many folks like yourself spend the time to make them by hand. And may I ask how much y’all sell a dozen for today? EE: They’re eight dollars a dozen. And you say they were seventy-cents a dozen when you started? RE: Uh-hmm. --- Over the years has there been anything that you've changed about the recipe? RE: Not a thing. --- Well would it be possible for y’all maybe to talk about what it goes into preparing them? Not necessarily giving away any secrets but, you know, a day in the life of a tamale maker? What goes first and--? RE: Well, I really wouldn’t--don't want to talk about that…It's a lot of work, that's about all I can say. I know it. It takes some time to make them. EE: Yes, it does. How many do you think y’all make at a time? RE: Oh, well it really depends on how many people that call for them, you know. Uh-hmm. We try to make as--enough to satisfy the ones that call for them. Usually they call in for them. --- Are you aware of people who come through the area from far away for your tamales? RE: Oh, yeah. Yeah they do, they do. EE: Because they still remember Daddy. Can you describe your dad a little bit for the record? About his personality and who he was? EE: The greatest man that ever lived. [Laughs] Yes. To me. [He had] a beautiful personality. He could deal with any race. He was just that type of person. He just had that personality. --- And so what do you think the future of the Ervin family tamales might be? EE: Well, no, the future is--it's so hard to say about the future, but I pray that it be a success. I really do. I really pray. I pray for the best for it. That’s about the best I can say--about the future. It's so unpredictable. Indeed. Well is the recipe something that y’all will pass onto other family members or that y’all might sell when the time comes or anything like that? RE: Won’t pass on the recipe. It’s supposed to be a secret…Oh, in the future? Well it's really hard to say about that but as of now, I don't think so. [Laughs] So you wouldn't consider selling it to someone else when the time comes? RE: Not--not as of now. I don't know what might--from what my husband paid way back in that time, I doubt anybody would want to buy it now. [Laughs] You remember how much he paid for it? RE: Paying--it was much over a thousand dollars. EE: And that was in the [nineteen] sixties. RE: We never thought that they would go over like they have and--and perhaps they might go on up, up, up…I don't know if anybody would really want to buy it. [Laughs] Well that's something that he wanted to buy it for that amount of money that long ago…He must have really had faith in the recipe. [Laughs] RE: What I--what I think he could remember as being a child and how well this person did with this is what made him want it. He was an old Jew but he used to have--he must have did a lot of good to make my husband want to try it. I'd say so. Do you have any idea if that Jewish man sold the recipe to other folks? RE: I really don't know. I don't think he did around this area because it wasn't too many people, you know, that made them. Do you remember where in Arkansas [the man who sold him the recipe] was? RE: No, I don't remember. --- Well, Miss Rosetta do you have any final thoughts about your life tamale making? RE: Nothing. I just hope we can continue and hope it gets greater and greater than it is. It has come a long ways so far. EE: A lot of blood—hard work. It's more than meets the eye…People seem to think it's easy, but it's not easy. RE: It's just like going in the kitchen and cooking a meal but it's--it's far from that. A lazy person wouldn't do it; it's got to be somebody that really wants to do it. [Laughs] --- Are your tamales real spicy or not so much? RE: Well, we make three different kinds, uh-hmm…The hot and mild and then the regular ones. And some people like them real, real hot. Some don't like them quite as hot. And some can't even eat the hot ones, so that's where the mild ones come in. And so the regular one is like a medium-hot? Uh-hmm, um-hmm, um-hmm. Is there one that you think you sell more of? Hot. And when y’all eat them do y’all like to eat them with crackers or anything? I used to eat them with crackers when I eat them. I don't--I don't eat them too regular--but I mostly eat crackers. Uh-hmm. Have y’all heard or seen of anybody who likes to put something odd on a tamale? EE: Yes, rice. Okay, tamales and rice? EE: Uh-hmm, chili and tamales. Some people even--I've been told that they drink milk and eat them. RE: I don't believe that's good, though. [Laughs] That just don't sound like that's good. It sounds like somebody is trying to have them for breakfast. [Laughs] Well all right then. Well any final thoughts, Edna? EE: Just like my mother said, I just pray that the business continues to get better and better. --- To download the entire transcript in PDF form, please click here.
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Ervin’s Hot Tamales
Listen
to this 
Uh-hmm.
And so y’all would make the tamales at home and then cart
them around on the weekends to sell?
RE:
When he first started, he'd use shucks sometimes. There started
being problems in corn so much, he just got off the shucks and--.
